Re: SIS: Talk about a shift in partners...

Tsk Tsk.

Splinter, didn't you claim to just join the group from being an oracle user?
Now you claim to be an IBM employee?

Can't seem to get your stories straight.

BTW, do you know who Jim Solomon was? I doubt it. It was before your time..
So you don't know my employment history with Informix.

Too funny. And I bet you're a person who thinks that zip codes are spatial data.

But I digress.

So lets get back to the issue at hand.

The point being is that in new opportunities, there's a higher probability that the account team from IBM will recommend the use of some other database than IDS when in fact IDS would be the correct choice in databases.

One reason is that there could be a "quid pro quo" relationship between oneor more of the reps associated with the deal.

There are other reasons, but I guess most people here don't understand the sales process.

Even Splintar there.

Man, don't you just hate it when a sock puppet can't get their own story straight.

-G

> From: splintter-at-ymail.com
> Subject: Re: SIS: Talk about a shift in partners...
> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:18:32 -0700
> To: informix-list-at-iiug.org
>
> On Aug 26, 8:38 am, Ian Michael Gumby wrote:
> > > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:07:26 +0100
> > > From: obno...@serendipita.com
> >
> > > I'm surprised that Morgan the ACE Director hasn't been along to tell us
> > > about Dice and Oracle jobs yet. Did you know that ACE Directors sign up
> > > to be an official Oracle shill? It does rather call "academic
> > > impartiality" into question.
> >
> > >http://www.oracle.com/technology/com...ndex.htmlsays:
> > > "Oracle ACE Directors work more closely and formally with Oracle in
> > > terms of their community activity."
> >
> > > I did read the entire website and didn't find any requirement for
> > > pompousness. That must be Daniel's own contribution.
> >
> > > --
> > > Cheers,
> > > Obnoxio the Clown
> >
> > LOL...
> > I don't think you have the issue of "academic impartiality" since the 'course' Daniel 'teaches' is a continuing education course and it specifically states Oracle in the title.
> >
> > Sort of like going to your local community college and taking a course entitled: "Learning to master Photoshop" or ,"Mastering Digital Photography using Photoshop".
> > Clearly the course involves teaching a single product and not photography in general.
> >
> > -G
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > Be the filmmaker you always wanted to be—learn how to burn a DVD withWindows®.http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588797/direct/01/
>
> Gumball -
>
> I still work IBM. And unlike you, I not fired from Informix and IBM.
> Fellow workers in this part of country know how you left of IBM. And
> they all agree it wasn't choice of you.
>
> I ask again - how long at IBM? How long at Informix? Most writer here
> have many year at either or both companies, and would speak this with
> no problem. I look around and see if I find resume' for you since
> every writer know who you are.
>
> One more time - answer questions? Oh - one more wonder - did you spend
> this much time write here on this newsgroup when you were at IBM or
> Informix?
>
> Splintter
> _______________________________________________
> Informix-list mailing list
> Informix-list-at-iiug.org
> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list

__________________________________________________ _______________
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http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/

Ian Michael Gumby said:
>
> So lets get back to the issue at hand.
>
> The point being is that in new opportunities, there's a higher probability
> that the account team from IBM will recommend the use of some other
> database than IDS when in fact IDS would be the correct choice in
> databases.
>
> One reason is that there could be a "quid pro quo" relationship between
> one or more of the reps associated with the deal.
>
> There are other reasons, but I guess most people here don't understand the
> sales process.

Amazing, salesmen indulge in mutual back-scratching which takes precedence
over ethics and what's best for the customer!

Tell me, oh wise one: where do bears ****? And what religion does the Pope
belong to?

--
Bye now,
Obnoxio

http://obotheclown.blogspot.com/

Obnoxio The Clown wrote:

> I'm surprised that Morgan the ACE Director hasn't been along to tell us
> about Dice and Oracle jobs yet. Did you know that ACE Directors sign up
> to be an official Oracle shill? It does rather call "academic
> impartiality" into question.
>
> http://www.oracle.com/technology/com...ace/index.html says:
> "Oracle ACE Directors work more closely and formally with Oracle in
> terms of their community activity."
>
> I did read the entire website and didn't find any requirement for
> pompousness. That must be Daniel's own contribution.

Why thank you. I'm flattered.

But since you asked:
Oracle 18,870
Sybase 1,486
RPG 328
Informix 326
Pick 317

Keeping ahead of Pick and neck-and-neck with RPG. Well done!
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan-at-x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

DA Morgan wrote:
> Obnoxio The Clown wrote:
>
>
>> I'm surprised that Morgan the ACE Director hasn't been along to tell us
>> about Dice and Oracle jobs yet. Did you know that ACE Directors sign up
>> to be an official Oracle shill? It does rather call "academic
>> impartiality" into question.
>>
>> http://www.oracle.com/technology/com...ace/index.html says:
>> "Oracle ACE Directors work more closely and formally with Oracle in
>> terms of their community activity."
>>
>> I did read the entire website and didn't find any requirement for
>> pompousness. That must be Daniel's own contribution.
>>
>
> Why thank you. I'm flattered.
>

So, Mr Oracle Shill, given that you've formally signed up to promote
Oracle, why should we give a rat's ass about your opinion of an Oracle
competitor?

--
Cheers,
Obnoxio the Clown

http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

On Aug 26, 6:17 pm, Obnoxio The Clown wrote:
> DA Morgan wrote:
[SNIP]
>
> So, Mr Oracle Shill, given that you've formally signed up to promote
> Oracle, why should we give a rat's ass about your opinion of an Oracle
> competitor?
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Obnoxio the Clown
>
> http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

Oh that is so bad.
The fact that you have a couple of schmendricks (sorry Yiddish is a
spoken language :-) that want to bash informix, you should be proud.

I'm sorry but I don't hate the product. Just the incompetent slackers
who claim to be marketing / selling the product to new partners and
customers.

Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that Cisco is still a great OEM
customer. But when you have defections in the bread and butter apps,
that's not good.

Custom apps? Yeah that's the niche. But IBM hasn't done *anything* to
replace NAG and go after the financial marketplace. (THAT IS
WHITESPACE!) Oh and Splitntter or spatter what ever name you choose.
SIAC mean anything to you? ;-)

Gumpy,

I think you need to adapt. I'm concerned that your message is getting
lost in a lot of distractions. For one thing, you need to change your
name to something more shall we say, "offshore". I'm thinking that maybe
you can keep Gumby, but offshore it, something like SriniGumb, or maybe
Gumbamurthy, or possibly just Gumbi. This I think will help you reach
a more global audience who may not understand your tongue-in-cheek
american humor. You also should have a blog, and reach outside the
usenet community, just as others have done. Don't let cockgobblers like
Sphincter or whoever he is distract you. I'm thinking the next release
of IDS should also have a more "offshore" name too. This is something
I think we all should be thinking about to get IDS in the hands of as
many people around the world as possible. Instead of an animal name for
IDS I really hope we see something more futuristic, more imaginative
that really reflects the global image and message IDS can bring to the
database market.

Best Regards,

InDeep

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:
> On Aug 26, 6:17 pm, Obnoxio The Clown wrote:
>> DA Morgan wrote:
> [SNIP]
>> So, Mr Oracle Shill, given that you've formally signed up to promote
>> Oracle, why should we give a rat's ass about your opinion of an Oracle
>> competitor?
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Obnoxio the Clown
>>
>> http://obotheclown.blogspot.com
>
> Oh that is so bad.
> The fact that you have a couple of schmendricks (sorry Yiddish is a
> spoken language :-) that want to bash informix, you should be proud.
>
> I'm sorry but I don't hate the product. Just the incompetent slackers
> who claim to be marketing / selling the product to new partners and
> customers.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that Cisco is still a great OEM
> customer. But when you have defections in the bread and butter apps,
> that's not good.
>
> Custom apps? Yeah that's the niche. But IBM hasn't done *anything* to
> replace NAG and go after the financial marketplace. (THAT IS
> WHITESPACE!) Oh and Splitntter or spatter what ever name you choose.
> SIAC mean anything to you? ;-)

On Aug 26, 10:41 pm, InDeep wrote:
> Gumpy,
>

[SNIP]

InDeep,

Glad you spoke up. Yeah the sockpuppets pop up, but unfortunately you
have to address them because ignoring them doesn't work.
And you are right to talk about focus on the topic.

Trying to push IDS in to the "offshore" market is a joke. Sure you
need a global base, and I don't disagree there. However, its not
"offshore" but "on shore" in those countries.

You can't focus on the "start up" marketplace. Sure one can download
IDS and learn it for "free", however, when you put your product out
the door, you now have a high percentage of your software margin going
to cover your "slightly" discounted IDS that you purchased from IBM. I
think the best you can do is 25% off list. Looking to larger
companies, try percentage discounts off a level J. Big difference. So
you the small startup look towards databases that meet your need that
have a much lower price tag. PostgressSQL and MySQL are much less
where Postgress is "free". As long as you don't push the product,
you're ok. Then you can worry about scalability down the road. Need to
improve performance beyond tuning? Buy/lease a bigger box.

IBM needs to know where and how to hit a niche that will open other
doors.
I asked splintard if he new SIAC and the deal done back in December of
2003. He seems to think he knows a lot about me, but I wonder what his
"friends" in IBM know. He also doesn't know who I know/knew and who I
spoke to within the company.

But getting on track with this thread, sales reps will always take the
least resistant path. (hmmm just like an electron) So not pushing a
product, in the favor, of even a competitor's product so that they can
still take away part of the deal... That's life. As OTC points out,
nothing new under the sun there. And that's the point. Oracle pushes
the hardware deal to IBM who can then capitalize on everything that
doesn't interfere with Oracle and heck I think IBM is even a reseller
of Oracle so they can take some margin off the top too. But even if
they don't. They capture the hardware/services portion of the deal,
then also get a new relationship with the customer.

IMHO, SIAC was a failure because IBM IM didn't capitalize on the door
that was opened. And that was a huge mistake. Efforts to re-open doors
elsewhere have fallen on deaf ears. Why? Because it would have
required some work and well lets face it. Today's US corporate
"leaders" focus on the current quarter and not the deals down the
road. No investment in to the future. And that logic is taking hold in
B-Schools and corporate middle management.

If IBM IM was *truly* interested in seeing IDS succeed, they would
have made those investments. The media says that Hillary Clinton's
speech was ok, going through the motions, but it wasn't from the heart
and many of her supporters where skeptical. That pretty much sums up
my feelings about IBM IDS's strategy. Doing things so that you can
check off your PBC list saying you at least tried something.

So the saleforce partners with Oracle and IDS loses. (As if the IBM
salesteam knows IDS exists....)


-G

On Aug 27, 7:50*am, Ian Michael Gumby wrote:
> On Aug 26, 10:41 pm, InDeep wrote:
>
> > Gumpy,
>
> [SNIP]
>
> InDeep,
>
> Glad you spoke up. Yeah the sockpuppets pop up, but unfortunately you
> have to address them because ignoring them doesn't work.
> And you are right to talk about focus on the topic.
>
> Trying to push IDS in to the "offshore" market is a joke. Sure you
> need a global base, and I don't disagree there. However, its not
> "offshore" but "on shore" in those countries.
>
> You can't focus on the "start up" marketplace. Sure one can download
> IDS and learn it for "free", however, when you put your product out
> the door, you now have a high percentage of your software margin going
> to cover your "slightly" discounted IDS that you purchased from IBM. I
> think the best you can do is 25% off list. Looking to larger
> companies, try percentage discounts off a level J. Big difference. So
> you the small startup look towards databases that meet your need that
> have a much lower price tag. PostgressSQL and MySQL are much less
> where Postgress is "free". As long as you don't push the product,
> you're ok. Then you can worry about scalability down the road. Need to
> improve performance beyond tuning? Buy/lease a bigger box.
>
> IBM needs to know where and how to hit a niche that will open other
> doors.
> I asked splintard if he new SIAC and the deal done back in December of
> 2003. He seems to think he knows a lot about me, but I wonder what his
> "friends" in IBM know. He also doesn't know who I know/knew and who I
> spoke to within the company.
>
> But getting on track with this thread, sales reps will always take the
> least resistant path. (hmmm just like an electron) So not pushing a
> product, in the favor, of even a competitor's product so that they can
> still take away part of the deal... That's life. As OTC points out,
> nothing new under the sun there. And that's the point. Oracle pushes
> the hardware deal to IBM who can then capitalize on everything that
> doesn't interfere with Oracle and heck I think IBM is even a reseller
> of Oracle so they can take some margin off the top too. But even if
> they don't. They capture the hardware/services portion of the deal,
> then also get a new relationship with the customer.
>
> IMHO, SIAC was a failure because IBM IM didn't capitalize on the door
> that was opened. And that was a huge mistake. Efforts to re-open doors
> elsewhere have fallen on deaf ears. Why? Because it would have
> required some work and well lets face it. Today's US corporate
> "leaders" focus on the current quarter and not the deals down the
> road. No investment in to the future. And that logic is taking hold in
> B-Schools and corporate middle management.
>
> If IBM IM was *truly* interested in seeing IDS succeed, they would
> have made those investments. *The media says that Hillary Clinton's
> speech was ok, going through the motions, but it wasn't from the heart
> and many of her supporters where skeptical. That pretty much sums up
> my feelings about IBM IDS's strategy. Doing things so that you can
> check off your PBC list saying you at least tried something.
>
> So the saleforce partners with Oracle and IDS loses. (As if the IBM
> salesteam knows IDS exists....)
>
> -G

What is "sock-puppet"? And Gumbi - InDeep not serious. You too
ignorant to know difference.

My question to those in dialogue with Gumpy - why would you get
involved on discussion with writer who knows very little, since he
parade that he know everything about any topic raised, and cannot
answer simple question from the curious? When person able to answer at
length everything raised, a wise man must question what he really
know. Or perhaps those who dialogue with Gumball also know very little
but want crowd to think differerent.

Entertainment value increasing rapidly.

How many years you with Informix Gump? It is important for writers to
know this thing. Would reveal how little you know of IDS, and how well
other long-time Informix employee respect you opinion.

Splintter

> From: splintter-at-ymail.com
> Subject: Re: SIS: Talk about a shift in partners...
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:36:25 -0700
> To: informix-list-at-iiug.org
>
> On Aug 27, 7:50 am, Ian Michael Gumby wrote:
> > On Aug 26, 10:41 pm, InDeep wrote:
> >
[SNIP]

Spintard, you've already outed yourself as a sock puppet. If you don't know what a sock puppet is, then google it.

But rather than have a dialogue and participate, all you do is attempt toattack the poster.
I know what I know, and apparently, its far more than you do.

Why don't you ping your friends about SIAC. Cindy White may still remember it. So to would Deb Landers.
But alas, those contacts are probably above your pay grade. ;-)

Also, since you pretend/claim to be an IBMer. Why don't you explain to the rest of the world what IBM considers "White Space".


Sorry Spintard, I know what I know. And frankly, its a heck of a lot more than you.

-G


__________________________________________________ _______________
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On 25 Aug, 23:32, Ian Michael Gumby wrote:
> On Aug 25, 4:31 pm, "da...@smooth1.co.uk" wrote:
>
> > Do the peoplesoft sales team recommend oracle as the primary database
> > to go with peoplesoft?
>
> > After all it is the same company so why would they want the revenue to
> > go elsewhere?
>
> Most likely. After all, customers worry about choosing a platform that
> will be supported in future releases. Since Oracle owns Peoplesoft,
> its logical that the rep will push Oracle as the base database, unless
> of course the customer is a DB2 shop, then you go with what the
> customer knows.

Exactly so how was Oracle allowed to buy Peoplesoft, isn't it anti-
competative?