Which OS to just to run WEB Browser

Stefan Patric quotes:
> [Debian} Recommends 1 GHz CPU and 512 MB RAM for Etch with a desktop.

They are equating "desktop" with Gnome or KDE.

> Probably the two first things I'd do to improve performance is compile as
> lean a kernel as I can...

The distributed kernel is already fully modular. You'll save disk space by
getting rid of the enormous wad of modules but you won't reduce the kernel
memory footprint.

> ...and use a lightweight GUI.

Yes. Avoiding KDE and Gnome (and Firefox) will help much more than would a
"slimmer" kernel (not the building a kernel is a big deal).
--
John Hasler
john-at-dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

John Hasler wrote:
> Stefan Patric quotes:
>> [Debian} Recommends 1 GHz CPU and 512 MB RAM for Etch with a desktop.
>
> They are equating "desktop" with Gnome or KDE.
>

Do you need a desktop at all? Obviously you need X windows, but suppose
you simply boot straight into the browser..and use browser tools for any
other activity, possibly even down to launching programs..

The Natural Philosopher writes:
> Do you need a desktop at all?

A "desktop environment"? Of course not. You probably do want a window
manager, but even that is not strictly necessary.
--
John Hasler
john-at-dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

The Natural Philosopher (a-at-b.c) writes:
> John Hasler wrote:
>> Stefan Patric quotes:
>>> [Debian} Recommends 1 GHz CPU and 512 MB RAM for Etch with a desktop.
>>
>> They are equating "desktop" with Gnome or KDE.
>>
>
> Do you need a desktop at all? Obviously you need X windows, but suppose
> you simply boot straight into the browser..and use browser tools for any
> other activity, possibly even down to launching programs..

That's what the Montreal Freenet did back in 1996, for all of its four
months of operation.

But, they used Lynx, and that took care of browsing and any work needed
on files, and then for newsgroups and email, Pine was launched from Lynx.
I thought it all worked out quite nicely.

MIchael

On Jun 2, 2:10 am, Stefan Patric wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 05:45:24 -0700, IsaacKuo wrote:
> > On May 31, 10:45 pm, Stefan Patric wrote:

> >> I
> >> could do a network install, but the minimum system requirements for
> >> Etch are well beyond the specs of my little 240X. Just too much OS.

> > Where are these minimum system requirements published? On Debian's web
> > site? Regardless, I can assure you that the actual minimum system
> > requirements for Etch are well below what you've got.

> Not according to Debian:

> http://www.debian.org/releases/stabl...h03s04.html.en

> Recommends 1 GHz CPU and 512 MB RAM for Etch with a desktop. For Sarge,
> "Recommends" are a lot less. Just about what the 240X has. Although,
> I'm not opposed to installing Etch just to see how it runs. Probably the
> two first things I'd do to improve performance is compile as lean a
> kernel as I can, and use a lightweight GUI.

Umm...from the above link:

|Install Type RAM (minimal) RAM (recommended) Hard Drive
|No desktop 64 megabytes 256 megabytes 1 gigabyte
|With Desktop 64 megabytes 512 megabytes 5 gigabyte
|
|The actual minimum memory requirements are a lot less then the
numbers listed in this table.

So, the stated minimums are actually 64megabytes, with the
caveat that the actual minimums are a lot less.

I know from direct experience that Etch isn't any more
sluggish than Sarge, on a computer with at least 48megs
of RAM.

Isaac Kuo

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 08:14:43 -0500, John Hasler wrote:

> Stefan Patric quotes:
>> [Debian} Recommends 1 GHz CPU and 512 MB RAM for Etch with a desktop.
>
> They are equating "desktop" with Gnome or KDE.

I always play it safe and start with the "Manufacturer's Recommendations"
regardless of what the final configuration becomes.

>> Probably the two first things I'd do to improve performance is compile
>> as lean a kernel as I can...
>
> The distributed kernel is already fully modular. You'll save disk space
> by getting rid of the enormous wad of modules but you won't reduce the
> kernel memory footprint.

Even with a modular kernel, you can save quite a lot by building a custom
one. Mainly what I'd leave out is full SCSI support no SCSI on the
notebook) and just compile in the SCSI stub needed by USB.

In the past, I've been able to reduce the size of the compressed kernel
file by at least a few hundred K to half meg.

Getting rid a unnecessary files, modules, libs, etc. does save disk
space, and it's right at the top of my list after an initial install.
But it doesn't improve system performance. Unless, of course, your
system is loading all those unnecessary libraries and modules, which a
lot of the times it does. I make sure that doesn't happen, one way or
the other.

>> ...and use a lightweight GUI.
>
> Yes. Avoiding KDE and Gnome (and Firefox) will help much more than
> would a "slimmer" kernel (not the building a kernel is a big deal).

Every little bit helps with a marginally spec'd machine.

Stef

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 19:33:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> John Hasler wrote:
>> Stefan Patric quotes:
>>> [Debian} Recommends 1 GHz CPU and 512 MB RAM for Etch with a desktop.
>>
>> They are equating "desktop" with Gnome or KDE.
>>
>>
> Do you need a desktop at all? Obviously you need X windows, but suppose
> you simply boot straight into the browser..and use browser tools for any
> other activity, possibly even down to launching programs..

No, you don't, but if you want to run X base apps, you need the X server
and some type of basic window manager to make things easier. However,
I've read that all that is required to run an X app is the X server.
Although, I've never tried it.

Stef

Stefan Patric wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 19:33:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> John Hasler wrote:
>>> Stefan Patric quotes:
>>>> [Debian} Recommends 1 GHz CPU and 512 MB RAM for Etch with a desktop.
>>> They are equating "desktop" with Gnome or KDE.
>>>
>>>
>> Do you need a desktop at all? Obviously you need X windows, but suppose
>> you simply boot straight into the browser..and use browser tools for any
>> other activity, possibly even down to launching programs..
>
> No, you don't, but if you want to run X base apps, you need the X server
> and some type of basic window manager to make things easier. However,
> I've read that all that is required to run an X app is the X server.
> Although, I've never tried it.
>
Oh well. X was around long before BIG window managers..Xterm was how you
launched your app..there was some way of resizing windows IIRC and
switching focus..not sure if that's part of X-windows native, or not..

> Stef

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Stefan Patric wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 19:33:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> John Hasler wrote:
>>>> Stefan Patric quotes:
>>>>> [Debian} Recommends 1 GHz CPU and 512 MB RAM for Etch with a desktop.
>>>> They are equating "desktop" with Gnome or KDE.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Do you need a desktop at all? Obviously you need X windows, but suppose
>>> you simply boot straight into the browser..and use browser tools for any
>>> other activity, possibly even down to launching programs..
>>
>> No, you don't, but if you want to run X base apps, you need the X
>> server and some type of basic window manager to make things easier.
>> However, I've read that all that is required to run an X app is the
>> X server. Although, I've never tried it.
>>
> Oh well. X was around long before BIG window managers.

A window manager is part of the X concept and had bee around as long as
X has been around.


> .Xterm was how you launched your app..there was some way of resizing
> windows IIRC and switching focus..not sure if that's part of X-windows
> native, or not..

That's what a window manager is for. Without it you can't even move
windows.



Florian
--

Florian Diesch wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Stefan Patric wrote:
>>> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 19:33:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Hasler wrote:
>>>>> Stefan Patric quotes:
>>>>>> [Debian} Recommends 1 GHz CPU and 512 MB RAM for Etch with a desktop.
>>>>> They are equating "desktop" with Gnome or KDE.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Do you need a desktop at all? Obviously you need X windows, but suppose
>>>> you simply boot straight into the browser..and use browser tools for any
>>>> other activity, possibly even down to launching programs..
>>> No, you don't, but if you want to run X base apps, you need the X
>>> server and some type of basic window manager to make things easier.
>>> However, I've read that all that is required to run an X app is the
>>> X server. Although, I've never tried it.
>>>
>> Oh well. X was around long before BIG window managers.
>
> A window manager is part of the X concept and had bee around as long as
> X has been around.
>
>
>> .Xterm was how you launched your app..there was some way of resizing
>> windows IIRC and switching focus..not sure if that's part of X-windows
>> native, or not..
>
> That's what a window manager is for. Without it you can't even move
> windows.
>

yeah..its all coming back..but thats ALL the window manager did.


>
>
> Florian