Can ext2 kernel run ext3 binaries.

Sam wrote:
> +Alan Hicks+ writes:
>
.... snip useless gubris ...
>
>> MIME is for e-mail.
>
> No, it's not. Not for at least a couple of decades. Welcome to
> the 21st century.

Not so. Take a look at the "Content-Type" header. You can specify
a char-set here. Usenet is a text medium.

--




cbfalconer at maineline dot net


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 2007-06-05, Sam wrote:
> This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that
> your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.
> The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996.
> To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet
> software that supports modern Internet standards.
>
> --=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-6417-1181005531-0001
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mimegpg
>
> +Alan Hicks+ writes:
>
>> ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.slackware.]
>
> Why?
>
>>> This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means t=
> hat
>>> your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.
>>=20
>> Please don't use MIME on USENET.
>
> For some reason, some people curiously prefer to unwind the clock back to=20
> the '70s. Those were the days, huh? Everyone spoke and wrote English on=20
> Usenet, and there weren't any furriners, posting messages that contained=20
> funny-looking characters.
>
>> The vast majority of clients do not
>> support MIME, and in fact, probably never will.
>
> For every ancient non-MIME client you can name, I'll probably be able to=20
> name three modern clients that fully support MIME. Besides, taking the=20
> current contents of comp.os.linux.misc:
>
>> ...

Sam, FWIW, in case you are listening, I'll second Alan's
request. I use slrn, and it is apparently not in sync with
your idea of how to use MIME and your signatures. Whenever
you post, I see the full text of all your MIME wrapper
stuff, and it makes it difficult to see what you're actually
saying. There are very few postings in comp.os.linux.misc
that have the problem, so I would venture to say it looks to
me like your use of MIME stuff is in the minority.

--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42-at-verizon.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:

> I use slrn, and it is apparently not in sync with your idea of how to
> use MIME and your signatures.

Another SLRN user here, and I'm afraid I may not be seeing the same
thing as others: I see the "MIME" disclaimer at the top of Sam's
messages, but they're just a minor annoyance. What strikes me most
about his messages is the "=20" at the end of each line (sometimes with
lines wrapping in the middle of words). That's slightly more of an
annoyance and were it not for this thread, the worst that would have
come from me about it is less chance that I might followup to one of his
posts. Whether that's "good" or "bad" would really be up to him to
decide. I'm sure he reserves the right to be completely ambivalent ...

> Whenever you post, I see the full text of all your MIME wrapper stuff,
> and it makes it difficult to see what you're actually saying.

With the installation of Slrn I use, tapping the space bar makes it easy
to get past that stuff to the real message contents. Perhaps the
version you're using is different? ;-)

> There are very few postings in comp.os.linux.misc that have the
> problem, so I would venture to say it looks to me like your use of
> MIME stuff is in the minority.

That's of course another point altogether that should be taken into
consideration. Perhaps Sam's newsreader produces the MIME wrapping
differently than others.

In an effort to provide Sam with a slightly different data set than that
which he collected, though:

: newsflash[syl] ~; grep -rl "^Mime-Version: " \
/news/spool/alt/os/linux/slackware |wc -l
32
: newsflash[syl] ~; ls -1 /news/spool/alt/os/linux/slackware |wc -l
290
: newsflash[syl] ~; bc
bc 1.06
Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
For details type `warranty'.
scale=4
32/290
.1103
: newsflash[syl] ~; grep -rl "^Mime-Version: " \
/news/spool/comp/os/linux/misc | wc -l
499
: newsflash[syl] ~; ls -1 /news/spool/comp/os/linux/misc | wc -l
1167
: newsflash[syl] ~; bc
bc 1.06
Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
For details type `warranty'.
scale=4
499/1167
.4275
: newsflash[syl] ~;

Only 11% of messages in alt.os.linux.slackware with a Mime-Version
header, which is certainly less than the 73% he found on the misc group.
The same search in the misc group produces a slightly different ratio on
the news server here. Perhaps the signal-to-noise ratio on the news
server Sam's using differs from the one I'm using? (we're using
Cleanfeed here and have a very good signal-to-noise ratio)

Each group has a slightly different culture, and I think it can be
argued to be bad form to impose a new form on a newsgroup just because
you insist on using it. Consider that contrary to the argument you
posted in followup to Alan Hicks' request, your posts (at least those
that have made it to AOLS on the news server I use) don't, in fact,
include any characters not available in the standard ACSII character set.
If your only intention for using MIME is to make it possible to use
other character sets, that appears to be lost on the rest of us who are
reading your posts in plain English ...

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille syl-at-alcor.concordia.ca

Systems and Network analyst Concordia University
Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In alt.os.linux.slackware Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:

> Sam, FWIW, in case you are listening, I'll second Alan's request.
> I use slrn, and it is apparently not in sync with your idea of how
> to use MIME and your signatures. Whenever

And what do you have to say about our request that The Coward Hicks
bury his pgp trash trolling in his headers?

> you post, I see the full text of all your MIME wrapper stuff, and
> it makes it difficult to see what you're actually saying. There
> are very few postings in comp.os.linux.misc that have the problem,
> so I would venture to say it looks to me like your use of MIME
> stuff is in the minority.

And The Coward Hicks' use of pgp trash trolling is also in the
minority. Could you please advise The Coward Hicks to bury his pgp
trash trolling in his headers?

cordially, as always,

rm

In alt.os.linux.slackware Sylvain Robitaille wrote:

> With the installation of Slrn I use, tapping the space bar makes
> it easy to get past that stuff to the real message contents.
> Perhaps the version you're using is different? ;-)

Why are you still using slrn? slrn is junk. Always has been.

cordially, as always,

rm

In alt.os.linux.slackware Sylvain Robitaille wrote:

> Only 11% of messages in alt.os.linux.slackware with a Mime-Version
> header, which is certainly less than the 73% he found on the misc group.

How many messages use pgp trash trolling?

> The same search in the misc group produces a slightly different
> ratio on the news server here. Perhaps the signal-to-noise ratio
> on the news server Sam's using differs from the one I'm using?
> (we're using Cleanfeed here and have a very good signal-to-noise
> ratio)

> Each group has a slightly different culture, and I think it can be
> argued to be bad form to impose a new form on a newsgroup just
> because you insist on using it.

Like pgp trash trolling? Pgp trash trolling violates clear usenet
netiquette signature rules. The continued use of pgp trash trolling
by The Coward Hicks and his imitators is not a "cultural" thing. It
is simply a choice made to bother everyone else.

> Consider that contrary to the argument you posted in followup to
> Alan Hicks' request, your posts (at least those that have made it
> to AOLS on the news server I use) don't, in fact, include any
> characters not available in the standard ACSII character set. If
> your only intention for using MIME is to make it possible to use
> other character sets, that appears to be lost on the rest of us
> who are reading your posts in plain English ...

And those of us reading in plain English do not need pgp trash
trolling to verify that posts coming from somebody using a pseudonym
are actually coming from somebody using a pseudonym.

The "culture" of pgp trash trolling is one of gadgetry and
affectation. It is the skin piercing, tattooing, and all of the
other adolescent crap of those who like to copy others in the name
of individuality. If you are going to copy somebody else, why on
earth would you copy hillbilly trash like The Coward Hicks?

cordially, as always,

rm

Robert M. Riches Jr. writes:

> Sam, FWIW, in case you are listening, I'll second Alan's
> request. I use slrn, and it is apparently not in sync with
> your idea of how to use MIME and your signatures.

It's not "my idea", it's a ten-year old Internet standard.

> Whenever
> you post, I see the full text of all your MIME wrapper

So, go get slrn fixed. Why is it that everyone else, who's not using slrn,
are required to work around ancient slrn bugs?

> stuff, and it makes it difficult to see what you're actually
> saying. There are very few postings in comp.os.linux.misc
> that have the problem, so I would venture to say it looks to
> me like your use of MIME stuff is in the minority.

You don't know what you're talking about. Go read RFC 2015, then we can
have an intelligent discussion here, but not before then.

As I've shown, around here 70% of messages are MIME messages, which is very
much a majority. Now, different messages may use different aspects of MIME
formatting, but it is still MIME, and all properly-written MIME parsers will
handle it correctly.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBGZURqx9p3GYHlUOIRAtKcAKCA6Cg30uD+RcUzLk8t20 5cEUKIYACfa56t
WGM007zrXEqiloRMdYFZL/8=
=M7b7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

sam-at-email-scan.com wrote :

> You don't know what you're talking about. Go read RFC 2015, then we
> can have an intelligent discussion here, but not before then.

Wrong RFC, check out RFC 3977 instead. Here you'll see that at Usenet
MIME is restricted to be used to specify the character set of the body.

> As I've shown, around here 70% of messages are MIME messages

Wrong, 70% of the messages is posted using a newsreader that can use
another character set than ASCII, like UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1.
--
Thomas O.

This area is designed to become quite warm during normal operation.

rm-at-biteme.org wrote:

>> Only 11% of messages in alt.os.linux.slackware with a Mime-Version
>> header, which is certainly less than the 73% he found on the misc
>> group.
>
> How many messages use pgp ...?

Slightly under 10%:

: newsflash[syl] ~; grep -rl "^-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----" \
/news/spool/alt/os/linux/slackware |wc -l
26
: newsflash[syl] ~; ls -1 /news/spool/alt/os/linux/slackware | wc -l
270
: newsflash[syl] ~; bc
bc 1.06
Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
For details type `warranty'.
scale=4
26/270
.0962
: newsflash[syl] ~;

It could be reasonably argued, then that PGP use on
alt.os.linux.slackware is approximately as common as MIME ...

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille syl-at-alcor.concordia.ca

Systems and Network analyst / Newsmaster Concordia University
Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sam wrote:
>
>You don't know what you're talking about. Go read RFC
>2015, then we can have an intelligent discussion here,
>but not before then.

Your arguments would carry more weight if they cited the
correct RFC's and other documents. RFC-2015 does not
pertain to Usenet, and indeed does not even mention it.

Please read RFC-3977 "Network News Transfer Protocol
(NNTP)". See RFC-1036 too, however...

RFC-1036 predates MIME and does not mention it. It is
therefore clearly obsolete, and for roughly a decade now
there have been efforts to replace it. Obviously there
is no consensus though, on what should replace it!

Here is one draft:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/...-usepro-07.txt


"NOTE: This corresponds to the range of octets
permitted in MIME 8bit data [RFC2045]. Transports
for Netnews are not required to support transmission
of MIME binary data."

...

"While a charset parameter is defined for this media
type, most existing software does not understand MIME
header fields or correctly handle descriptions in a
variety of charsets. Using a charset of US- ASCII
where possible is therefore RECOMMENDED; if not
possible, UTF-8 [RFC3629] SHOULD be used. Regardless
of the charset used, the constraints of the above
grammar MUST be met ..."


Here is another draft:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/...-usefor-12.txt

"MIME is recognized as an integral part of Netnews."

Clearly there are multiple views on what is "correct".

Currently the only acceptable MIME format is ASCII text
or UTF-8 or "and ecnoding based on it, such as RFC 2047"
which must be used for all parts of the article
generated by the client.

You can indeed encode externally sourced documents into
the message body using MIME multipart content if you
like, but of course no client is required to produce
that content and no server is required to even forward
the article!

And indeed some of the major Usenet providers do filter
out messages containing shuc binaries posted to
newsgroups that are not specified for binary articles.

>As I've shown, around here 70% of messages are MIME
>messages, which is very much a majority.

Your figures are meaningless. My messages for example
show up as MIME in your analysis.

MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

You've only looked for a MIME version header, but have
ignored the all telling Content-Type header.

>Now, different
>messages may use different aspects of MIME formatting,
>but it is still MIME, and all properly-written MIME
>parsers will handle it correctly.

A "properly-written MIME parser" for Usenet messages
distributed via NNTP protocols can, and will, quite
correctly toss any message that contains a message body
with other than UTF-8 or US-ASCII. Or it can mangle it.
Or it can substitute a picture of the sender's middle
finger extended.

--
Floyd L. Davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd-at-apaflo.com