upgrading xorg?

On 06/10/2007 11:31 PM, Huub wrote:
> Howard Goldstein wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:36:17 +0200, Huub <"v.niekerk at hccnet.nl">
>> wrote:
>> : Thank you for your answer. I decided to do "export
>> XORG_UPGRADE=yes" and : use portupgrade -R xorg. This seemed to go
>> ok, but ends with this:
>>
>> I don't think that moved helped you out. I wonder how you'll recover
>> from this state? Are you going to do the other important stuff the
>> script would have done for you by hand? (please consider keeping a
>> journal of how you do recover from it, I'm certain you're not the only
>> one who did this)
>>
>>
>>
> As far as I understand script(1) only records the output written to tty.
> So it doesn't actually do something for me, other than keeping track. An
> actual script, performing the upgrade of xorg and its dependancies would
> be welcome of course. But portupgrade -R or portupgrade -a should take
> care of a nice and tidy upgrade after cvsup.

I'm sorry friends, FreeBSD is not Debian and it does not have an
equivalent to 'apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade'; that's why many a
good persons have already invested their time and energy on researching
and, or comparing *BSD ports and Debian's package systems.

IMHO, Individually downloading and, or compiling source packages the in
a BSD and Gentoo fashion, is quite digging out the same well again and
again.

Please not that I'm brave enough to be running FreeBSD 7.0-CURRENT,
although I somehow managed to upgrade xorg to 7.2, but most of my kde
package are still broken and, or are in an un-buildable stat and that's
due to hell of a dependency management of the ports and, or capabilities
of relevant tools.

I think, most of the FreeBSD developers and, or contributors better
understand and, or already know all this.

Though, this might be somewhat out of topic here for some of you, but
none of my Gentoo systems outperformed any Debian machine till date
So why invest hours and, or even days on downloading and compiling all
the stuff on local machine?

--
Dr Balwinder S "bsd" Dheeman Registered Linux User: #229709
Anu'z Linux-at-HOME Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192
Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India Gentoo, Fedora, Debian/FreeBSD/XP
Home: http://cto.homelinux.net/~bsd/ Visit: http://counter.li.org/

> I'm sorry friends, FreeBSD is not Debian and it does not have an
> equivalent to 'apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade'; that's why many a
> good persons have already invested their time and energy on researching
> and, or comparing *BSD ports and Debian's package systems.
>
> IMHO, Individually downloading and, or compiling source packages the in
> a BSD and Gentoo fashion, is quite digging out the same well again and
> again.
>
> Please not that I'm brave enough to be running FreeBSD 7.0-CURRENT,
> although I somehow managed to upgrade xorg to 7.2, but most of my kde
> package are still broken and, or are in an un-buildable stat and that's
> due to hell of a dependency management of the ports and, or capabilities
> of relevant tools.
>
> I think, most of the FreeBSD developers and, or contributors better
> understand and, or already know all this.
>
> Though, this might be somewhat out of topic here for some of you, but
> none of my Gentoo systems outperformed any Debian machine till date
> So why invest hours and, or even days on downloading and compiling all
> the stuff on local machine?
>

I'm well aware that FreeBSD is not Linux. But until now upgrades of all
packages through the ports-system went well, from gimp via firefox to
gnome and everything else. And now you are telling me that it'd be some
kind of a miracle if xorg7.2 would build fine? In that case I'd better
leave this 6.2 system until 7.0 is official and not waste my time any
longer on upgrades that will go wrong anyway.

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:01:49 +0200, Huub <"v.niekerk at hccnet.nl"> wrote:
: As far as I understand script(1) only records the output written to tty.
: So it doesn't actually do something for me, other than keeping track. An
: actual script, performing the upgrade of xorg and its dependancies would
: be welcome of course. But portupgrade -R or portupgrade -a should take
: care of a nice and tidy upgrade after cvsup.

I'm referring to the upgrade script, not script(1). I have a sneaking
suspicion that you're going to be in quite a pickle

On 06/11/2007 01:33 AM, Huub wrote:
>> I'm sorry friends, FreeBSD is not Debian and it does not have an
>> equivalent to 'apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade'; that's why many a
>> good persons have already invested their time and energy on researching
>> and, or comparing *BSD ports and Debian's package systems.
>>
>> IMHO, Individually downloading and, or compiling source packages the in
>> a BSD and Gentoo fashion, is quite digging out the same well again and
>> again.
>>
>> Please not that I'm brave enough to be running FreeBSD 7.0-CURRENT,
>> although I somehow managed to upgrade xorg to 7.2, but most of my kde
>> package are still broken and, or are in an un-buildable stat and that's
>> due to hell of a dependency management of the ports and, or capabilities
>> of relevant tools.
>>
>> I think, most of the FreeBSD developers and, or contributors better
>> understand and, or already know all this.
>>
>> Though, this might be somewhat out of topic here for some of you, but
>> none of my Gentoo systems outperformed any Debian machine till date
>> So why invest hours and, or even days on downloading and compiling all
>> the stuff on local machine?
>>
>
> I'm well aware that FreeBSD is not Linux. But until now upgrades of all
> packages through the ports-system went well, from gimp via firefox to
> gnome and everything else. And now you are telling me that it'd be some
> kind of a miracle if xorg7.2 would build fine? In that case I'd better
> leave this 6.2 system until 7.0 is official and not waste my time any
> longer on upgrades that will go wrong anyway.

I also refrain from upgrading even Debian and, or Gentoo production
machines.

A smooth binary only upgrade will definitely do magic for hundreds of
thousands of those who are new to FreeBSD and, or who don't have time
and, or resources to compile every thing or particularly big packages
like xorg, kde, gnome, openoffice.org, firefox, thunderbird etcetera;
may not be true for people like you and me who are seasoned
administrators and, or programmers.

I do prefer downloading and compiling a few packages for which I want
and, or need to do some customizations and, or contributions though
howsoever complicated these may be.

--
Dr Balwinder S "bsd" Dheeman Registered Linux User: #229709
Anu'z Linux-at-HOME Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192
Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India Gentoo, Fedora, Debian/FreeBSD/XP
Home: http://cto.homelinux.net/~bsd/ Visit: http://counter.li.org/

Huub wrote:
> gnome and everything else. And now you are telling me that it'd be some
> kind of a miracle if xorg7.2 would build fine? In that case I'd better
> leave this 6.2 system until 7.0 is official and not waste my time any
> longer on upgrades that will go wrong anyway.

Please stop with this nonsense.
Ok, the xorg 7.2 upgrade is a big one, and it takes time, but it works,
if you follow the instructions in /usr/ports/UPDATING,
and is a bit persistent.
If some ports fail under the upgrade, simply do a 'portupgrade -R
' for each one of those until you are through.

Then do the mergebase step, andd you are back to normal again.
(One caveat, for the time being, you will need "XORG_UPGRADE=yes" in
your environment whenever you want to upgrade an xorg port)
I have done the xorg 7.2 upgrade on two of my machines now (one i386,
one amd64 - both running 6.2-stable), without problems.
HTH
--
Torfinn Ingolfsen,
Norway

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:03:08 +0200
Huub <"v.niekerk at hccnet.nl"> wrote:

> > I'm sorry friends, FreeBSD is not Debian and it does not have an
> > equivalent to 'apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade'; that's why
> > many a good persons have already invested their time and energy on
> > researching and, or comparing *BSD ports and Debian's package
> > systems.
> >
> > IMHO, Individually downloading and, or compiling source packages
> > the in a BSD and Gentoo fashion, is quite digging out the same well
> > again and again.
> >
> > Please not that I'm brave enough to be running FreeBSD 7.0-CURRENT,
> > although I somehow managed to upgrade xorg to 7.2, but most of my
> > kde package are still broken and, or are in an un-buildable stat
> > and that's due to hell of a dependency management of the ports and,
> > or capabilities of relevant tools.
> >
> > I think, most of the FreeBSD developers and, or contributors better
> > understand and, or already know all this.
> >
> > Though, this might be somewhat out of topic here for some of you,
> > but none of my Gentoo systems outperformed any Debian machine till
> > date So why invest hours and, or even days on downloading and
> > compiling all the stuff on local machine?
> >
>
> I'm well aware that FreeBSD is not Linux. But until now upgrades of
> all packages through the ports-system went well, from gimp via
> firefox to gnome and everything else. And now you are telling me that
> it'd be some kind of a miracle if xorg7.2 would build fine? In that
> case I'd better leave this 6.2 system until 7.0 is official and not
> waste my time any longer on upgrades that will go wrong anyway.

I installed xorg 7.2 following the instructions
in /usr/ports/UPDATING. I had a bit of trouble with the symlinks but
it was nothing major...

Here is a trouble free way.

Follow my instruction and you will have xorg 7.2 up and running in 30
minutes.. (It requires a reinstall)

1...Go to the freebsd mirror website & click on "snapshots" There you
will find '6.2-Stable' for your arch as you said is i386. You will see
two ISO images, you only need the first. Download and burn this ISO.

2...Start the install. WHAT YOU WANT IS A MINIMAL INSTALL with no xorg
ports installed. If memory serves click on kern developer without X.
This will install freebsd without xorg. It wont take long.

3....Next it will go through the install stage about setting up users
and your network etc. set all that up, after that is all done it will
ask you to remove the disk and reboot into your new system.

4....Reboot: login as your wheel user - su root and run portsnap fetch
update, after that's done run portsnap extract (It will tell you) Now
that you have an updated ports tree run pkg_add -r xorg----------I'm
on a cable modem and withing 15/20 minutes xorg 7.2 was installed with
no problems. Now that you have a working FBSD-system with xorg-7.2 you
need to install what ever ports you use.

Timmy wrote:
> fluxbox up and running but its worth it in the long run. Needless to
> say, it freaking flies.
>

Bull****, it doesn't make a difference.
Operating system programs are mostly IO bound and optimisation is totally
useless on them. Even on compute bound programs there are many cases
where high optimisation levels have negative effects. As for
architecture specific flags they give positive effects once in a blue
moon. Compiling ones programs from source is only an excellent way to loose
ones time and risk that something goes astray.


--

Michel TALON

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 00:39:05 +0530
Balwinder S Dheeman wrote:


> IMHO, Individually downloading and, or compiling source packages the
> in a BSD and Gentoo fashion, is quite digging out the same well again
> and again.

Tarballs compiled from source run faster than pre-built-binaries built
on someone else box, as far as speed goes, Gentoo/BSD will run circles
around Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora etc - -If you have the build
optimisations set during your program/s compile. The problem with FBSD
is that you should have the option to set C-flags BEFORE THE INSTALL,
similar to Gentoo, set opt options grab a stage-1 tarball and build from
that. With FBSD you have to set the options in /etc/make.conf rebuild
the world and then start building the programs with optimizations.
Matter of fact just installed Gentoo-2007.0 from a stage 3 tarball
amd64 I run nocona cflags 03 Yeah it took hours just to get xorg and
fluxbox up and running but its worth it in the long run. Needless to
say, it freaking flies.

Hello,

I am trying to find out what the minimum necessary partition size are
for /usr and /usr/ports. I really want to separate the operating system
from everything else (included Xorg) on different partitions.

At this moment I have the following partitions on a 6.2-RELEASE box:

$ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity Mounted on
/dev/ad0s1a 124M 39M 75M 34% /
devfs 1.0K 1.0K 0B 100% /dev
/dev/ad0s1d 124M 20M 94M 17% /var
/dev/ad0s1e 989M 700M 210M 77% /usr
/dev/ad0s1f 989M 843M 67M 93% /usr/local
/dev/ad0s1g 1.6G 437M 1.0G 29% /home

Xorg seems to be under /usr/X11R6:

# du -h -d 1 /usr
2,0K ./.snap
24M ./bin
14M ./include
19M ./lib
92K ./libdata
15M ./libexec
843M ./local
13M ./sbin
221M ./share
2,0K ./src
162M ./X11R6
127M ./compat
2,0K ./games
2,0K ./obj
105M ./ports
1,5G .

Timmy wrote:

> 2...Start the install. WHAT YOU WANT IS A MINIMAL INSTALL with no xorg

> 4....Reboot: login as your wheel user - su root and run portsnap fetch
> update, after that's done run portsnap extract (It will tell you) Now
> that you have an updated ports tree run pkg_add -r xorg----------I'm
> on a cable modem and withing 15/20 minutes xorg 7.2 was installed with
> no problems. Now that you have a working FBSD-system with xorg-7.2 you
> need to install what ever ports you use.

Will this procedure install Xorg under /usr or already under /usr/local?

What I would like is to substantially reduce /usr size. Will 512MB be
alright? Assuming I take /usr/ports from /usr partition to either its
own partition or somewhere else (sym-linking it from /usr/ports). Are
there any other directories under /usr which contain ports 'parts' or
something which is not part of the base operating system? What about
/usr/obj? /usr/src? etc?

--
Saludos,
Angel

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:26:11 +0000 (UTC)
talon-at-lpthe.jussieu.fr (Michel Talon) wrote:

> Timmy wrote:
> > fluxbox up and running but its worth it in the long run. Needless to
> > say, it freaking flies.
> >
>
> Bull****, it doesn't make a difference.

Sure it does.

> Operating system programs are mostly IO bound and optimisation is
> totally useless on them. Even on compute bound programs there are
> many cases where high optimisation levels have negative effects.

Care to back that up with a few benchmarks?

>As
> for architecture specific flags they give positive effects once in a
> blue moon. Compiling ones programs from source is only an excellent
> way to loose ones time and risk that something goes astray.

Build a Gentoo system from a stage-1-tarball using -O3 opt
and then install the same release using the Live-Cd
installer and then come back and talk to us about what system runs
faster on the same hardware.

As for FBSD, mixing source and packages seems like a bad idea. Pkg_add
-r this, and you get a bunch of warnings that this should be updated or
that packaged is outdated etc... If you run a light system building
from source is not a problem, fluxbox for desk, mail: postfix, Mutt,
fetchmail, procmail and spamassassin will handle all of your mail needs,
next firefox/opera handles all of your browsing needs, multimedia,
xine, mplayer and xmms. If all my programs were outdated I could run
portmaster -a and it would take less than an hour to build everything
from source..